paladin buff

so I'm voicing this concern because I just feel like paladin really sucks and is an underused class, in that people really only use paladin to get saves, or people might make paladin cots. blackguard is just a superior class through and through because they don't have to take wisdom to get their AB, their ab buff is also tied to their dispel... let's just look at a few examples of why paladin is bad right now.

if you take a 15 paladin you theoretically are getting 6 ab, 5 from favor +1 from prayer
if you take a 16 BG you get 5 ab, but you also get 2 free feats, or one really if you consider taking fiendish servant for the extra 2 ab not a free feat. so lets just call it one free feat. blackguard ALSO gets sneak attacks, the same bab and only requires that you're evil and take 5 hide.

a 25 blackguard gets 7 ab, which you only have to buff once, and if there's a teammate with prayer you're getting an added benefit whereas paladin has prayer to begin with. 25 BG gets 5 extra feats.
26 paladin still gets 6 ab, and they only get 2 extra feats. mind you they perhaps have a slightly more powerful dispel, bu they're incredibly feat starved and ability starved. I just don't see the attraction to going paladin, and on top of that going dex based BG is infinitely more effective than going dex based paladin because sneak attack scaling with blinding speed.

I propose that divine favor have new scaling where you still get +1 ab/dmg every 3 levels. after that scaling you'll get ab 1/6 levels to compensate for having to take wisdom, and also having a lack of feats.

15 pal: 5 ab
21 pal: 6 ab
27 pal: 7 ab
33 pal: 8 ab
39 pal: 9 ab

one might be inclined to say that since paladin gets such an ab boost from low levels, why not just take cot or fighter?
while making a paladin cot is totally viable and is competitive with other builds such as blackguards, this is really the only avenue you have.

if say you made a 15 paladin 1 rogue 24 fighter and compared it with a 14 fighter 1 rogue 25 bg, the paladin will be significantly weaker because it doesn't have a powerful dispel(it also runs out, and runs out quickly), it has to use ability points on wisdom to get its ab, and it doesn't get sneak attack.

if you go with higher levels of paladin and say make a paladin rdd you're still going to be subpar in comparison to a fighter BG, because you're feat starved.

don't get me wrong, I think paladin is a great class, but it would just be nice if there was some more variation in builds. I'm not advocating for pure paladins, but a reason to go higher level paladin that isn't just for the holy sword

Good points, agreed. I didn't consider wisdom as a cost due to it's bonus to will saves and skills, but blinding speed synergy clearly tips the scales in BGs favor. Favor gaining 1 per 6 past 15 is pretty fair.

totally agree with the , the pally is in need of a little tweeking . sounds good I might use my pally rogue again

i agree it needs a boost aswell but don't think it should be on BG level, don't think a normal class should be as good as a prestige class

prestige classes aren't supposed to be better than regular classes, we're trying to give people reasons to have variety in builds. if BG is always the better pick than paladin then it doesn't make any sense to take paladin, but if paladin is sometimes better than BG given circumstances or other classes then it's what we should strive for. paladins are only getting AB here, they don't get sneak attack and they don't get the benefit of more apr from blinding speed, their ab also runs out, and they have to cast it during pvp.

I agree with a lot of the points hex has made, and I would certainly like to see paladins get some TLC. It would be cool to see an influx in tank diversity due to the ab increase. The dispels will be a bit annoying, but we've already got that with BG. I'm wondering why you set the paladins final dfavor ab increase to be at 40? Is this intended? 6 level progression would put it at 39. Regardless, good stuff.

yeah, it should be 39, thanks

For paladin specifically, i would like to see an item that recharges their divine favours or else just let their level 1 spells regen. I like the proposed changes also.

Is it possible to remove the alignment preq for Paladin please?!

Sooo many build possibilities with paladin if the Lawful Good req is removed.

xomatosis wrote:

Is it possible to remove the alignment preq for Paladin please?!

Sooo many build possibilities with paladin if the Lawful Good req is removed.

I'd be in favor if all (or specifically paladin/bg) classes had no alignment restriction, however at 40 their alignment be changed to reflect their class selection (ie: LG Paladin, Evil Blackguard) similar to what is done with assassin. In the case where both bg/paladin are selected, the last selection would decide the alignment change. Just a thought w/ 2 cents

Mikey

Make no alignment restriction for pal pls

All u feggs asking to lift alignment need to go back to your shitty server elsewhere, I do agree palladin being my favorite class has really been lacking for sometime with all the other class changes and buff I like the idea of the more threat ab and I am for this my pally cot rouge if far less superior than my fighter assassin bg, and the math proves this. I DO NOT want to see pally bard shit running around BC four or five people think the alignment should be lifted. No alignment changes or shifts are for a good reason.

Ye I have to agree , on Badlands60 the alignment changer was a good thing due to the legend levels and so much more . This is not badlands60 . We do not need 100ac 72 ab pally pms running around f ing sh#t up for whatever reason . Give pally a slight ab increase maybe a ac boost per level per char per a lot of extra char so not to be overpowering or some Gay Retard sh#t ( we know who that is ) and lets move on .

there's no such thing as a 100 ac 72 ab paladin pm. Paladin PM is inherently a mediocre build made by mediocre players. you don't need to worry about it, honestly the only thing I would worry about is paladin assassin and that's already possible.

Pal assass ftw

are u sure man , cause going pally div and 16 pm ur ac can easily get into the 90s . been there done it . the 100 is possible . still with right around 70 ab . I like how half the server accused me of using pms , i get 90 plus ac all the time without it .

on no server that i've played on has paladin PM been a scary and or overpowered build. it's a tank with all around mediocre stats, it's feat starved and has higher ac than most tanks. it doesn't really serve a purpose other than maybe dueling or PVE. it definitely wont get 72 ab, that's an exaggeration. I could see them getting MAYBE 68 at most. the ac would be anywhere between 82-86

16 pally 4 bard 20 pm , u are clueless . ab close to 70 at 68 is not bad for having 95 ac .

I'm not debating the stats, per se, at least not the AB, but the AC your citing is wrong, and even if it was that high, it wouldn't matter, the build isn't good for pvp. Like I said, it's primarily a noob build that people should use for pve or dueling. I know this because I've played on servers with no alignment restrictions. feat starved/mediocre ab does not make a good tank(for pvp).