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 Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells

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Spaceman87

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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:19 am

This has become the most interesting thread on the forums lol.

I agree with removal of the BG dispel auto success on 20 rolls.

I like infinite spells, and I am happy that countermeasures to mages exist;
-spell resistance monks
-barbarians bypassing epic warding
-arcane archers indeed, especially ones with divine might
-rangers too apparently?
-and of course, logging a mage to kill the other mage! (you can even build it for this special purpose and be very effective)

Dragons can be, or at least very recently could be, VERY powerful, I got raided by a 74 ab ikd dragon that also had massive AC, not sure exactly how but I think it was in combo with modded wisdom scaling monk

I like ideas of players controlling a small npc war party, but only if it was confined to certain areas eg. certain keeps set up this way with defending and possibly attacking npcs available

Any other changes I would oppose, because I am generally happy that there is a build or method I can use to challenge the situation, I don't find myself in 'impossible' situations, so there is always fun, always a chance to kill, and that is what pvpers should want, danger with a chance of success.
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Highv Priest
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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:38 pm

At the end of the day... The goal of any game should not be to go in the direction of a boring outcome. When spell regen was nerfed to the point of 150 and server population dropped and PVP slowed to a crawl and no one wanted to play spellcasters that was supposed to be a wake up call. The only reason I did it to be precise. To demonstrate it wouldn't work.

Now during this period of long work and my own inactivity I've designed a brand new system to keep things more interesting(read fun).

It's quite massive and will essentially be a full overhaul in spell based combat. I wrote up a spreadsheet on each item, but basically the design is addressing literally every problem with a series of mechanical changes that I'll keep simple and try to make them mostly intuitive.

There will be A LOT of nerfs. Some buffs... and a bunch of new additions. The end result will be a much more fair and WAY MORE FUN combat design towards not just spellcasters, but melee/ranged too.

Also yes removing BG auto dispel on 20s. Instead their dispel rolls double the BG level versus the caster+12+abjuration defense. Max is 60 versus 54. BG gets no d20, it's just double class level.

Edit= It's not static level. It's random... So with 60 it's 1d60 each hit versus caster+12


Last edited by Highv Priest on Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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strakej02



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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:39 pm

I read this.
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ThorVeras



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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:35 pm

1) For what i saw about 6 to 12 players online at same moment on the last week was a rising from previous months, i alone got 2 friends here but was because i think the server was ok with the balance.
I hope the changes are for better i liked playing here i hope i still does, hope is to things dont get over complicated or bad. There is a say ''dont change a winning team''.

2) And this topic was ALL about a guy with a lvl 38 druid losed in spell fighting to a guy with lvl 38 mage and got crying on forums, in 15 years of NWN this is no news for me as i see people crying a lot over anthing instead of adapt and evolve because is easier and is the way new people today want stuff. Easier to get.
Now ask how many times people go the training room and try to study on the stuff server have ? I think i did more research time than actually game play to get to the point of my builds where actually good since my first builds was NWN vanilla based and had no chance on the server.
By no means was unbalanced but people are just too lazy to think on tatics to fight others like guys who killed me a lot did.
The day a druid can beat a mage in pure spellcasting i will exit this game, because that is no balance at all. Like i did say before druid is half fighter and even have some abilities like shapes, the cleric is about buffs and being a half fighter as well helps.

3) Most servers i played last years get down by massive changes and people got bored without any alert. Some just erased the chars and tryed to restart entirely the server, this destroyed the player base.
As a person who dont have much time to play normaly i liked the fast lvl sistem here and the training area with all the content of the game so i could see what are the possibilities on the game. But on this there is some way of improvment:

- Statues on training area
- A 1x1 pvp box on training area would be good to test builds against actual targets and not just NPC that go straight tatics.
- Would be good To have an Forum tread with ``HOW TO GET``the actual magic itens used by people here so we dont need to keep asking to older players as some would say nothing and others just dont log often. The tread could be atualized by players and the DM could fix a topic everytime a new item is asked.


4) I find that BG dispel was not so badly as people crying over losing a fight was maybe we should NERF the crying haha ! Joke aside BG dispel is very strong vs mage and buff chars. But with nerf i want to see if is still possible to a BG win against a mage cause that was the best thing BG have against it. And omg, playing this weak, how people not look to numbers, server was like infest with BG assassin all week, but no one complained about, i tryed to do one but i suck on building fighters, so i did a half mage/fighter and sucked on pvp but was very good on PVE still fun.

By the way the server is down all day. Like i say before if there is any problem with hosting i can help with that.
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Morgoth

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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:19 am

I've been pvping in nwn nearly since hotu release, I've played several servers, adapted to plenty of changes.
Unlimited spells on a DC wiz for virtually no cost** is ludicrous and does need some tweaking, and a druid sure as hell should beat a wizard if you had only 4 spell mantles or something and I had 15 dispells, a DC caster battle should be dependant of spell books, what you chose to balance, so no, druid can beat wiz, or wiz beat druid dependant on how you set yourself up.
Free spells in this instance actually diminishes variety, especially in caster vs caster pvp, perma mantle or globe is a free win unless somebody does a gimpy dragon. Perhaps druid summons could be buffed and wizard summons nerfed perhaps? or unbreachable or buffed SR? any array of things could change it up, but the lie that free spells creates some added fun and diversity in it's current state is just silly and I'm glad the devs are open to adjusting it a rather large amount.
One solution is removing much of the protection potions at the same rate you nerf spell regen, seems unfair you can spam more death ward trinkets or FOM pots than people have spells for, or allow breach scrolls - unsure if these are in already.

Not having free spells is boring? How so? also nowhere do I see evidence that not having free spells make casters unplayable.

I'm actually happy for spell regen to exist in some form, but you stonewalling and refusing to see how broken having them totally for free on a DC wiz is, thats just obtuse, - and I love casters, love pure dc wizards, love playing them, so I'm not ignorant to their weaknesses as someone who only plays melees may well possibly be.

**DC bonus for either 40 wiz or something like no disc points is a common theme across pvp servers most are familair with and isnt often considered a real downside, especially considering the benefits
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Morgoth

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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:25 am

@HighV - I don't mean to discourage the hard work going into the spell system and I'm happy to see work done to change an old game, I'm just happy to see that the dev members are open to adjusting the numbers on not only spell regen, but also BG dispell, people like you and the other devs are what keeps it going, sorry if I came across like a right cunt.
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Highv Priest
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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:02 am

We haven't had a vault wipe in 8 years. I just don't do those.. In fact the server vault is backed up on a remote 2 terabyte external hard drive every Wednesday.

I don't have problems hosting, but admittedly I'm not home often to turn stuff back on during power surges or updates.

I won't be making everything really boring and terrible as others have done. The changes are purely based on understanding what ultimately stops PVP from continuing. Focusing on the times where it just dies.

Part of the change is a deep redo of spell regen. Part of that will be literally making all forms of dispelling work like spontaneous casting where if the caster doesn't have enough and it doesn't regen then it will sacrifice one spell of equal level to allow the cast.

I understand the view of tactics and spellbook management as a meta, but the problem is for 90% of players it's boring and one of the biggest reasons only some people play casters in NWN in a PVP sense.
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ThorVeras



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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:30 pm

[quote="Highv Priest"]I don't have problems hosting, but admittedly I'm not home often to turn stuff back on during power surges or updates.


Like i say i will gladly host if you need, at least use me a backup plan in case you cant for some reason.
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ThorVeras



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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:31 pm

Highv Priest wrote:
We haven't had a vault wipe in 8 years. I just don't do those.. In fact the server vault is backed up on a remote 2 terabyte external hard drive every Wednesday.

I don't have problems hosting, but admittedly I'm not home often to turn stuff back on during power surges or updates.

I won't be making everything really boring and terrible as others have done. The changes are purely based on understanding what ultimately stops PVP from continuing. Focusing on the times where it just dies.

Part of the change is a deep redo of spell regen. Part of that will be literally making all forms of dispelling work like spontaneous casting where if the caster doesn't have enough and it doesn't regen then it will sacrifice one spell of equal level to allow the cast.

I understand the view of tactics and spellbook management as a meta, but the problem is for 90% of players it's boring and one of the biggest reasons only some people play casters in NWN in a PVP sense.



Forgot to ask HighV, when the server is going UP again ?
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Highv Priest
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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:17 pm

When I get home in 5 hours lol
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ThorVeras



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PostSubject: Re: Get rid of spell regen, get rid of or heavily nerf onhit dispells   Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:43 pm

Highv Priest wrote:
When I get home in 5 hours lol

You are a bad man ! All your chars must be evil !!!! lolz.

I was looking the beamdog stream about the NWN Enhanced appears they will solve a number of issues, one is the master volume.
Other are grafics them some bugs.

They might migrate to 64 bits and this will help with servers ressources but will fuck every mod people did they will need to redo.

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